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My summary of information from correspondence below follows:
I do not know the names of the parents of the following three siblings:
Nancy B. (Barrett?) Lyles (6/13/1812 - 5/20/1895) and Thomas Valentine Lyles (1817 - 1860~). were 2 of 7 children of Mary Woodward and Arromanous Lyles II. Mary was a daughter of Rev. William Woodward and Nancy Barrett. William was a son of Thomas Woodward "the Regulator", who married Jemima Collins. Thomas was son of Thomas Woodward and Elizabeth Simpson.
My correspondence with Rick Roeger <firstname.lastname@example.org> follows:
Part of letter #1 from WHS to Rick Roeger <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> and <email@example.com> 21 January 1999 about Traylor and Lyles families.
Dear Mr. Rick Roeger,
Thank you for the information you posted on the Fairfield County, SC Query Forum on 18 Feb 1998, which I just read.
At long last I seem to know of someone who is interested in my Traylor family.
I know that I am a descendant of Nancy B. Lyles, but I am not sure if any of what I was told about her ancestry is correct. You may be able to help me verify and document it.
I posted more at http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3926/index.html and at http://members.tripod.com/~nl/index.html .
Thomas Valentine Lyles (1817 - ?) and wife Isabella Traylor (1822 - ?) are listed on a chart at http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3926/chart.html and at http://members.tripod.com/~nl/chart.html .
Isabella may have been the sister of William E. Traylor and aunt of William Henry Traylor and Thomas Woodward Traylor.
Please send me whatever information you have whether it is consistent with the information above or not.
How are we related?
The following reply to the letter above confirmed what I had already learned about the ancestry of Nancy B. LYLES. If my first letter to Roeger had not included Ederington's Chapter on the Lyles family and information from my webpage, I might be more confident that information Roeger emailed me came from sources other than my own. I did not know what is written in bold letters before I received the reply below:
Letter 1 from Rick Roeger <firstname.lastname@example.org> to <email@example.com> 24 Jan 99 about Lyles, Valentine, Woodward
Hi, It is great to finally find someone who is looking for the same line of Traylor's.
I have many pages on the Lyles and Woodward, but only a few lines on the Valentine and Traylors. Isabella Traylor was born 1822. My great aunt had a paper that said she had two brothers. William E. born 1817 and John Fields born 1818.While looking into the Lyles history I found a sister Nancy (to Thomas Valentine) who married a William Traylor. I think William and Isabella were siblings who married Lyles siblings. Can you help me on any of this. If I could get to her parents and a will. Isabella married Thomas and they moved to Ala. in the 1840's. Thomas died about 1860. On the 1860 census record of Fayette co., Ala is Isabella with her 6 children and FRANCIS TRAYLOR age 16 and B.S. of Va. Who is this FRANCIS ?? My records show that Mary Woodward married Arromanous Lyles. Mary was daughter of Rev. William Woodward and Nancy Barrett. William was son of Thomas Woodward, the regulator, married Jemima Collins. Thomas was son of Thomas Woodward and Elizabeth Simpson.
I will write again, hope to hear from you. Your friend, Rick Roeger
Letter 2 from Stewart 26 January, 1999 to firstname.lastname@example.org about Traylor, Lyles, Valentine and Woodward genealogy:
Dear Cousin Rick Roeger,
Thank you for your prompt 24 Jan 99 response, for your contributions to the genealogy of our ancestors, and for the information you sent me.
>>Roeger ->I have many pages on the Lyles and Woodward . .
Aproximately how many megabytes?
>>Roeger -> . . but only a few lines on the Valentine and Traylors.
I want to learn as much as I can about the Lyles, Valentine, Woodward and Traylor families also. Please send me whatever information you have on them. I did not know how I was related to the Lyles, Valentine and Woodward families until about a month ago.
>>Roeger -> Isabella Traylor was born 1822. My great aunt had a paper that said she had two brothers.
Is a great aunt the sister of ones grandmother, or the sister of ones great grandmother?
How are we related? Is Isabella TRAYLOR (born 1822 - ?) your great great grandmother? If so I think we would be fourth cousins via our common Traylor ancestor.
Is Arromanus Lyles II your great great grandfather? If so I think we would be fourth cousins via our common Lyles ancestor.
>>Roeger -> John Fields born 1818.
I did not know about William E. Traylor's brother John Fields before you wrote me. Do you have any more information about John Fields?
>>Roeger -> Can you help me on any of this.
I hope so. Working together may improve our chance of success.
>>Roeger -> If I could get to her parents and a will.
If I knew the parents of Isabella, William and John Fields, I would have already told you. I will certainly attempt to notify you if I ever find out. I have long wanted the same information. What else would you like me to send you?
Was Ederington's Chapter on the Lyles family helpful?
From: TRAYLOR-D Digest V99 #28, message #8
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999
From: C L C TRAYLOR <email@example.com>
TO: BEVERLY, and others
RE: TRAYLOR derived from TRAILLOUR
TRAYLOR name having a French origin, POSSIBLY yes, but not from Traillour.
Out of my head, I give you the following response:
The TRAYLOR name is considered to have its origin from ANGLO SAXON, or present northern France. This origin is stated in the dictionary of names.
Your knowledge of religious persecution by the Catholic king of France of the non Catholics: the Jews, the Protestants (Huguenots), and their subsequent flight is valid. However we have no way to prove the validity of this origin. (See: Edict of Nantes, and the Revocation of Edict of Nantes.)
Huguenots = pro-testantes, or Protestants.
The stories of Huguenot persecution are not well known to American. But, the stories are worthy of movie scripts, great tragedy, imprisonment, victims placed as row crew in the galley ships, chain gangs ...and etc. Terrible persecution of the Huguenots that would not convert to the Catholic faith. The same thing happened in Spain, 1492.
==(We believe Columbus was a covert Jew, his parents covertly practicing the faith. Even here in New Mexico, among the early Spanish colonialist we find evidence that covertly some of them were practicing the Judaism, and descendants do so today, while also being obvious members of the Catholic church.)
The Huguenots mainly fled to the nearest shore in England, and many to Holland. These two countries were the least resistant to the refugees. We might note, the poetic justice of this persecution was the near collapse of the French economy, for the Huguenots were the bankers, craftsmen, tradesmen, the skilled work pool
We do not find the name TRAYLOR in France.
The Huguenot refugees flight to England was to the nearest shore, the southeastern shore, mainly the Dover area, and/or up the River Thames. We must note that the first recorded Traylor name in England was in that area, Essex County.
The Traillour family in France (1600's) to which we were erroneously linked were well educated, college degrees, one a lawyer, several ministers including our Pierre and his father Pierre. Our Pierre had three children named Pierre, two buried in "ye olde cloister yard at Canterbury."
I have stayed in Canterbury on three different trips, and of course visited the cloister yard. But, the yard is now a grass courtyard. As I searched for the stones one time, a passing minister told me a grounds keeper complained about cutting around the grave stones, so removed them into a pile along the back fence...This removal was after WWII.
If our ancestors in England descended from that educated line, the English family would have estates, Wills, and other records associated with a wealthy; records for historian of today to read. That was not the case with the first recorded Traylor families in England, NICHOLAS TRAYLOR, born 1617. (LDS IGI ESSEX) [Does LDS means Mormon?] Not until the 1900's did many Traylors rise above the lowest poverty level.
Notice that I have been to Calais, France; London, England; Middleburg, Holland; to search the Huguenot archives. Also, I searched in the Huguenot libraries in New York, and Charleston (SC). I corresponded with French resident amateur historians, and two professorsof French history both French nationals and residents of France.
I could write a book from my boxes of research on the Trouillart line,and should do it ... You think the Jews had a monopoly on persecution, read about the Huguenots; read about the Crusades, read about Spain in1492
.==(The Traylor name is not in the Crusades that I can find, but claimed to be there by some researchers. I hope the name is not found.)
The Traillour home (1630's) in Calais was near the beach, a beautiful wide sandy beach, a resort area then and until World War II. The Germans occupied the home during WWII, and when the allied planes returned from bombing raids, that was the last place to dump any unused bombs... All the nice homes were destroyed and the area is now a warehouse district; I visited the area bout 1985.
I have a copy of a photo of the home taken in the early 1900's.
In Holland, Pierre visited Middleburg several times "to learn goldsmithing" so read his travel permits. But, in fact it was a gathering of Huguenot ministers.
When Pierre fled Calais as a refugee, he fled to Middleburg. When he retired from Canterbury, he returned to Middleburg. It was a walled city, on an island in a huge marsh land. Today, the marsh is drained and converted to farms. The old ship channels through the marsh now are canals.
So, I have been to Middleburg for five days in hopes of learning about Pierre. But, in WWII, the Germans bombed the town, and most of the records were lost. However, the village yet is a charming place to visit. The destroyed town was reconstructed using the old stone and old pictures, but walking along the alley you can see the new construction.
CONCLUSION: The Traillour family to which Dr. Anjou attached our Traylor line is not ... not ... the origin of the name TRAYLOR. The Traillour line is an historic French Huguenot family, but there is no way... no way ... we can prove it is our line. And, the social economicdisparity of the 1600's between TRAYLOR and TRAILLOUR reduces the probability there was a connection to the French Traillour line used by Anjou.
Incidentally, for readers of the Huguenot history: Pierre Traillour was minister in a Protestant church that seated 3,000 persons, near Calais, France. He fled to Middleburt, Holland, then to Canterbury, England. He was a minister there in the late ... late ... 1600's, that is about 40 years after the name TRAYLOR is found in Essex, thus Pierre Traillour is not a source of Traylor in Essex.
Pierre's congregation met in the Cathedral of Canterbury. The last time I was at that Cathedral that congregation yet met in the Cathedral, and possibly in the same room that Pierre was permitted to use on a temporary, emergency, basis for his refugee congregation. Access is from the south side yard, and there was a small sign, "Huguenot,"about knee high in the grass by the permitter walk, it pointed the way to the side door.
The current minister was not responsive to my efforts to gain an interview, even though I left a message on his residence door, and in his meeting room at the Cathedral. I was at B&B only a few blocks from the Cathedral, and from his house. I have read much of Pierre's journal where he records Baptisms and the deaths of his children.
Pierre's father had a Ph.D. in theology. Pierre had a bachelor's degree in theology, and his brother. ____ Traillour, had a bachelor's degree in theology. The brother apparently was permitted to flee Calais for Charleston, SC; and Pierre became the administrator of the residue of his estate. In Charleston, the brother became the first ordained minister for the Huguenot congregation. Previously they only had a lay minister.
Surely this is more of an answer than you wanted. And surely it is impossibly to correct the disservice provided by Anjou and Hines by connecting us to the TROUILLART or TRAILLOUR line.
Your comments and arguments are welcome.CAL.
The following may be the fake Traylor ancestry referred to above (posted at TRAYLOR-L@rootsweb.com Wed, 3 Feb 1999)
Here is my line. After generation 10, it may not be a true genealogy as I received a notice that the TRAYLOR/TRAILLOUR in France could be fake. Please let me know if anyone sees anything that can be confirmed or thrown out. Thanks, bp
2. Pearl JORDAN, Alamo, GA (Henry C. SELLERS)
3. Daniel JORDAN, Wheeler County, GA (Lula Esther BENTON)
4. Mary Ann ELTON, Sandersville, GA (James Mathew JORDAN)
5. John Brooks ELTON, Sandersville, GA (Susan Clark SHURLING)
6. Mary Polly BROOKS, Sandersville, GA (John L. ELTON)
7. Elizabeth TRAYLOR, Sandersville, GA (James BROOKS)
8. William TRAYLOR, Sr. Wilkes County, GA (Nanny PERKINS0N ?)
9. Edward TRAYLOR Henrico County, VA (Elizabeth PERKINS0N)
10. Edward TRAYLOR Henrico County, VA (Martha RANDOLPH)
11. Edouard TRAILLOUR France (Louise PASCAL)
12. Jean TRAILLOUR Nouzonville, France (Barbe Du FAY)
13. Noel TRAILLOUR Nouzonville, France (Jeanne De GASQUE)
14. Edouard TRAILLOUR Maubeuge, France (Marie De La RONDA)
15. Jean TRAILLOUR France (Anne BROQUIN)
16. Guillaume TRAILLOUR France (Marguerite BASCUM)
17. Raoul TRAILLOUR France (Marguerite CAMBERNAUZ)
18. Jacques TRAILLOUR France ( ? )
19. Jean TRAILLOUR France (Marie PASCAL)
20. Guillaume TRAILLOUR France (Jean DUDEVANT)
21. Guillaume TRAILLOUR Cambrai, France (Jean MICHEAU)
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